195: Traversing the Dark Forests of Creativity and Business with Jessica Abel

Does the world really need this? This is one of the inevitable existential dilemmas of creative work. You have to decide that your work is worth your time and energy, because no one is asking you for it. Today’s guest, Jessica Abel, is someone whose work I have long admired for its richness and depth.

In this conversation, we talk about navigating the “Dark Forests” of creativity; go behind the business when one of her most successful books, Out on the Wire, was taking off; the causes behind cyclical burnout; three revenue-generating paths that she’s seen work best; and calculating your enough number as a small business owner.

More About Jessica: Jessica is an author and indie cartoonist-turned-creative business strategist (founder of Autonomous Creative) who has published a number of comics and prose books, including Growing Gills: How to Find Creative Focus When You're Drowning in Your Daily Life and Out on the Wire: The Storytelling Secrets of the New Masters of Radio. She also hosts the Out on the Wire and The Autonomous Creative podcasts. She specializes in helping mid-career creatives build businesses designed from the ground up to meet their financial needs without burning themselves out or sacrificing their creative integrity.

🌟 3 Key Takeaways

• The Dark Forest is a creative phase when you question the value of a project and if you should even continue working on it.

• Three main ways to fund creative work: Low-cost products and mass marketing, fitting your creative projects around more traditional work, and/or designing a high-end high-ticket business.

• Calculate your enough number by determining the amount of money you need to meet all of your obligations (including taxes and long-term savings), then determine capacity for the number of clients you can take on or products you can create. Divide the first number by the second to yield the minimum amount you need to charge.

📝 Permission: You do not have to make your living from your creative work. Money doesn’t have to enter the picture at all for you to be the real thing, to make work that has an impact, that expresses something you need to express.

✅ Do (or Delegate) This Next: Do the math on what would help you and your business thrive. If you haven’t already, check out the earlier conversation, 175: Give Yourself a Raise with Erin Haag.

🔗 Resources Mentioned

• Jessica on the web, IG: @autonomouscreative, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn

• Articles: Hustle Culture is Really a Scam—On Cyclical Burnout, Brad Troemel’s Athletic Aesthetics, How do you know if it’s time to quit? On the Dark Forest (with Kazu Kibuishi’s tweet we referenced)

• Videos: THE GAP — Ira Glass on Taste vs. Talent, The New Masters of Storytelling, SPX Spotlight on Jessica Abel and NPR Brad Troemel on the MFA pyramid scheme, Jessica at Creative Mornings on Flow

• Tools: YNAB, Jessica’s calculator, ****When do I earn out? (Jane Friedman's calculator for traditional book deals)

📚 Books Mentioned

• Out on the Wire: The Storytelling Secrets of the New Masters of Radio

• Growing Gills: How to Find Creative Focus When You're Drowning in Your Daily Life

• Trish Trash: Rollergirl of Mars

• Free Time: Lose the Busywork, Love Your Business

• Pivot: The Only Move That Matters Is Your Next One

• Life After College

🎧 Related Episodes

• Jessica’s podcasts: The Autonomous Creative, Out on the Wire

• Also Mentioned: This American Life, Radiolab, Planet Money

• Free Time: 181: Be Irreplaceable with My Creative Coach Jay Acunzo

• 182:🏚️The Challenges of Renovating a (Business) House while Living in It

• 175: Give Yourself a Raise with Erin Haag

• 162: Should You Self-Publish? (Part One)

• 164: Let’s Talk Royalties re: Publishing Options (Part Two)

• 174: What Book Marketing has to do with Glass Blowing: Reflecting on Free Time’s 1-Year Bookiversary 🥂

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